Discussion: Matrix Integration #809
Comments
nickvergessen
added
enhancement
feature: integration 📦
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An interesting idea you have, @sunjam. The college society I volunteer for, tested a lot of different collaboration software. We tested Slack, Mattermost, Riot.im/Matrix, Rocket.Chat, stackfield, Threema Work. From my non computer scientist point of view, it would be the best solution to closely cooperate with Rocket.Chat. I know that Rocket.Chat has not a PHP basis. But I honestly think that this is the best solution from a user experience perspective. Rocket.Chat can be installed on an own server and can also be hosted somewhere. I have NETWAYS in mind. And for guys like me, who just want to have a good looking and working peace of software, which is easy to update and to install, Rocket.Chat seems to be the way to go. Matrix is not easy to use. It's for professional coders only. What makes Nextcloud really special is it's simplicity. I can easily install Nextcloud within my web hosting service and just use it. Great work you do by the way @nickvergessen. And Matrix is not easy anything. I was shown the installation process on a test server. It's really horrible. And if we really want people to switch from Skype and Slack and Dropbox, that this open source society should deliver not only a good looking software, but an 'easy to handle' software too. |
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@GoetheG @Topic |
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I would rather go for implementing a matrix compatible api at least for federation. This would open a possibility to connect to matrix instances from within nextcloud talk. Or maybe it could even be possible to implement matrix's client api so existing matrix clients like riot could be used with nextcloud talk |
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When I posted my first comment I didn’t know anything about Nextcloud Talk. Is there maybe anything planned? I wish there were some easy way to connect Rocket.Chat with Nextcloud. That would make Nextcloud a real collaborative solution. But it seems that Nextcloud is building a completely new “messenger” from scratch. |
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Well we want everyone, that runs Nextcloud, to be able to also run Talk with as many features as possible. |
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What @violoncelloCH mentioned is really interesting. I had not thought of Talk being supported by Riot, which is a front end for the backend Matrix Synapse server. There are actually many client front end implementations being used. It would be fascinating if these front ends could be used with Nextcloud Talk. |
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Or if we had a matrix bridge which integrates Nextcloud Talk into the Riot client / Matrix network. |
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As a user, I'd vote against a centralized solution like Slack, Mattermost, Rocket.Chat, Threema.. and would explicitely vote for Matrix, because it is federated. Just my 2ct. |
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Definitely some confusion in that last response. Matterbridge (linked in
another request), can interconnect these services via python.
Threema and Slack are proprietary services. Mattermost is FOSS.
Rocket.chat and Matrix are both Federated and FOSS. Hope this helps.
…On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 6:37 AM Matthias Beyer ***@***.***> wrote:
As a user, I'd vote against a centralized solution like Slack, Mattermost,
Rocket.Chat, Threema.. and would explicitely vote for Matrix, *because*
it is federated.
Just my 2ct.
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I was all for this integration initially, but recently discovered the following privacy issues with Matrix: matrix-org/synapse#4540 A new protocol called "The Grid" is being proposed and developed to address these issues: https://gitlab.com/thegridprotocol/home Seems to be led by one dev at the moment, though. |
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Is there any official statement answering those points from Matrix? |
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@Xananax The research paper claims Matrix did a full review of the notes here and he responded. Though, there's a lot of information to sift through and apparent contention between the two individuals. |
https://matrix.org/blog/2019/06/30/tightening-up-privacy-in-matrix |
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It seems to me like the second part of the research is either old (written prior to the links @tilosp posted) or not entirely accurate. The response by Matrix in those blog articles seems to commendable to me and addresses a lot of (if not most/all? I didn't do a bullet-by-bullet comparison) the criticisms of the paper. I see this as a constructive attitude, far from the bleaker picture research paper #2 painted. |
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I agree though the second blog link from @tilosp was posted only yesterday. Matrix seems to have taken significant strides to address the issues listed in the paper. They also posted an AMA on /r/privacy yesterday. Seems I commented a day too early! |
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+1 for this topic, I'd really like my self-hosted communication platforms to be able to integrate with each other |
Bumps [webpack-cli](https://github.com/webpack/webpack-cli) from 3.3.0 to 3.3.1. <details> <summary>Release notes</summary> *Sourced from [webpack-cli's releases](https://github.com/webpack/webpack-cli/releases).* > ## Webpack-CLI v.3.3.1 > Version 3.3.1 comes with infrastructure fixes and various of improvements to the repository. Full changelog found [here](https://github.com/webpack/webpack-cli/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md#331-2019-04-21) </details> <details> <summary>Changelog</summary> *Sourced from [webpack-cli's changelog](https://github.com/webpack/webpack-cli/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md).* > # 3.3.1 (2019-04-21) > [Full Changelog](webpack/webpack-cli@v0.1.5...v3.3.1) > > ## New Features > > * terser: clean old files ([89e6b74](webpack/webpack-cli@89e6b74)) > * terser: remove leftover files ([27d5b4d](webpack/webpack-cli@27d5b4d)) > * terser: replace after merging master ([c404655](webpack/webpack-cli@c404655)) > * replace Uglify with Terser in generators ([2b8651b](webpack/webpack-cli@2b8651b)) > * use terserPlugin in loaderOptionsPlugin ([14f5337](webpack/webpack-cli@14f5337)) > * use terserJsPlugin for transformations during migrate ([33c6185](webpack/webpack-cli@33c6185)) > * replace uglifyJsPlugin with terserPlugin in migrate ([d467f3b](webpack/webpack-cli@d467f3b)) > * opencollective prompt: work on windows setting atime by code ([3af73a8](webpack/webpack-cli@3af73a8)) > * opencollective prompt: fix typo ([c2351b1](webpack/webpack-cli@c2351b1)) > * opencollective prompt: remove .lastocprint file from fs ([b96ad56](webpack/webpack-cli@b96ad56)) > * opencollective prompt: extract weekday to variable ([790d27a](webpack/webpack-cli@790d27a)) > * opencollective prompt: set terminal cols to 80 ([badc32d](webpack/webpack-cli@badc32d)) > * opencollective prompt: fix azure ci ([ea0039a](webpack/webpack-cli@ea0039a)) > * opencollective prompt: lint ([ea906d8](webpack/webpack-cli@ea906d8)) > * opencollective prompt: clear package.json modifications ([f080733](webpack/webpack-cli@f080733)) > * opencollective prompt: add prompt in postinstall script ([dd9d528](webpack/webpack-cli@dd9d528)) > > ## Ast > > * change tooltip property from uglify to terser ([ea9e4b8](webpack/webpack-cli@ea9e4b8)) > * replace requires and inits for uglify with terser ([3011a6c](webpack/webpack-cli@3011a6c)) > * replace UglifyJsPlugin with TerserPlugin ([21da35f](webpack/webpack-cli@21da35f)) > > ## Chore > > * cli: move constants to a separate file ([#798](https://github-redirect.dependabot.com/webpack/webpack-cli/pull/798)) > * deps: upgrade lerna to fix vulnerabilities & update webpack-dev-server ([#823](https://github-redirect.dependabot.com/webpack/webpack-cli/pull/823)) > * docs: removes scaffolding docs from the root ([8c1db03](webpack/webpack-cli@8c1db03)) > * junit: reverting the junit.xml ([80fd4fa](webpack/webpack-cli@80fd4fa)) > * tests: updated test regex, some helper scripts ([#809](https://github-redirect.dependabot.com/webpack/webpack-cli/pull/809)) > * types: add type information ([#791](https://github-redirect.dependabot.com/webpack/webpack-cli/pull/791)) > * replace instances of uglify with terser ([f9cb8ce](webpack/webpack-cli@f9cb8ce)) > * use actual package name in comment about removing uglify ([b1cf4cc](webpack/webpack-cli@b1cf4cc)) > * align file in the same way as other terserPlugin test fixtures ([b6c6484](webpack/webpack-cli@b6c6484)) > * remove gitHash from package.json ([2af08be](webpack/webpack-cli@2af08be)) > > ## Docs > > * contributing: fixes dead link ([#835](https://github-redirect.dependabot.com/webpack/webpack-cli/pull/835)) > * opencollective prompt: improve code clarity ([55992a4](webpack/webpack-cli@55992a4)) > * packages: adds downloads/month shield ([6a0375a](webpack/webpack-cli@6a0375a)) > * readme: adds contributors shield ([958d064](webpack/webpack-cli@958d064)) > * README: phrase change ([3a11a16](webpack/webpack-cli@3a11a16)) > * README: add link to webpack-scaffold-starter ([e35a194](webpack/webpack-cli@e35a194)) > * README: update scaffolding links ([74179b5](webpack/webpack-cli@74179b5)) ></tr></table> ... (truncated) </details> <details> <summary>Commits</summary> - [`d3f8e20`](webpack/webpack-cli@d3f8e20) chore: v.3.1.1 - [`f371e72`](webpack/webpack-cli@f371e72) Merge pull request [#847](https://github-redirect.dependabot.com/webpack/webpack-cli/issues/847) from anshumanv/846 - [`da9e732`](webpack/webpack-cli@da9e732) Merge pull request [#841](https://github-redirect.dependabot.com/webpack/webpack-cli/issues/841) from pranshuchittora/docs-remove - [`cb68b1b`](webpack/webpack-cli@cb68b1b) docs(serve): link to webpack-dev-server - [`f7451d4`](webpack/webpack-cli@f7451d4) docs(serve): update docs to use webpack-dev-server - [`06b4929`](webpack/webpack-cli@06b4929) Remove tslint in favour of eslint ([#834](https://github-redirect.dependabot.com/webpack/webpack-cli/issues/834)) - [`8c1db03`](webpack/webpack-cli@8c1db03) chore(docs): removes scaffolding docs from the root - [`dc941e6`](webpack/webpack-cli@dc941e6) docs(contributing): fixes dead link ([#835](https://github-redirect.dependabot.com/webpack/webpack-cli/issues/835)) - [`b8d5511`](webpack/webpack-cli@b8d5511) Merge pull request [#832](https://github-redirect.dependabot.com/webpack/webpack-cli/issues/832) from pranshuchittora/docs - [`6a0375a`](webpack/webpack-cli@6a0375a) docs(packages): adds downloads/month shield - Additional commits viewable in [compare view](webpack/webpack-cli@v.3.3.0...v.3.3.1) </details> <br /> [](https://dependabot.com/compatibility-score.html?dependency-name=webpack-cli&package-manager=npm_and_yarn&previous-version=3.3.0&new-version=3.3.1) Dependabot will resolve any conflicts with this PR as long as you don't alter it yourself. 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Yes, please. Matrix has a wonderful perspective to put all those slacks, telegrams, mattermosts, keybases, IRCs, and - eventually - even Whatsapp into that single box through https://dimension.t2bot.io/ with the right bridges... My use case: consolidate customer care channels, professionally. @nickvergessen You might even consider (seriously, and over time) to base your real time communication stack on matrix (giving it some time to mature). |
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I would also advocate to link TALK with the Matrix ecosystem - would be a great and self empowering combo!! |
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I too would appreciate matrix integration. Tbh I have not been impressed with the built in Talk. The chat is super basic without even offering a way to add/upload attachments or pictures and the video and voice chats were super spotty while on my own LAN. I think it would allow the nextcloud team more focus on the "cloud" aspects to offload the Talk plugin in favor of a matrix integration. I think this would line up more with how the email integrations work where nextcloud isn't really the provider but just another client. |
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It's already possible to embed Element Web as an external application if you find one that allows embedding. SSO and proper integration would be of course appreciated. |
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Just another comment on how Matrix integration would be very appreciated passing through. |
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Here's what Matthew from Matrix says about it. An encrypted search could also be implemented. #1437 (comment) |
Seems joining the matrix networks comes down to embedding a dendrite server into it and having a bridge build-in. It also seems we haven't seen a new release of the rocket chat integration since they announced joining matrix either :( |
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I would like to add that I too think adding the Matrix protocol(s) to Talk/NC is the way forward. Without such integration Talk is "just" a silo (which may be fine or be a requirement for some organizations) solution. I envision we connect these silos leveraging the Matrix protocol which would be a good alternative for using email (IMO: which is getting old, moves itself into a Christmas tree of security solutions which gets hard to maintain etc). This is in line with the Matrix vision and (as mentioned in this thread) where EU regulations are hinting to. From what I see companies choose cloud email and office solutions cause they "work together" and are "Compatible" (for what that is worth), so If we want to be an alternative for like education, governments etc there needs to be an standardized option to glue these systems together. Once "Talk" (or any Matrix enabled client for that matter) is the better solution, there's less need to use email. |
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i'm not sure about the matrix displacing email just yet. modern email seems to be more than just sending messages to each other, there's sending/recieving/declining/accepting calendar invitations, sharing mailboxes, sharing email addresses, message templates and configurable signatures and sharing signature designs etc etc etc from what i've seen matrix is more about instant messaging like whatsapp and signal than email replacement. Not saying it can't or won't but it has to cover a lot more ground to be an email alternative (case in point Teams hasn't replaced outlook, and microsoft doesn't seem to be intending to do that.....unlike what they did with skype) |
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I think Activitypub is more similar to maill than Matrix. |
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i mean yeah there is overlap, but i don't think can completely displace/replace one another |
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Perhaps a sacrilegious thought. But why don't nextcloud/spreed and nextcloud/mail work together more? I've had it several times that I actually would have preferred to treat a matrix chat like a mail. I want to archive history, mark messages as important, and reply to multiple messages in one go with the respective quotes. At the same time, there have been several mails that I would prefer to be treated like a chat, e.g. all the notifications I receive from all the forums and other programs. But also other rather small-talk mails. If I think it bigger. For me, it's not important if message arrive over imap, ActivityPub or Matrix. It's important how I could handle them. Do I need it as a simple chat or more complex like an E-Mail. |
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I think we are going slightly offtopic here :) keep some radio discipline |
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Does https://nextcloud.com/blog/bridging-chat-services-in-talk not remediate this? |
Kinda-sorta-not-really. It uses matterbridge, which is pretty good, but compared to synapse/matrix's bridging capabilities its not even close. Matrix is much more featerful out of the box, and they seem best positioned (Inmyveryveryuninformedopinion) to prove moxie and his "the ecosystem is moving" blogpost wrong. |
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Matrix's base data model allows for bridging to be as well-supported as native conversations, and it's openness allows anyone to write such a bridge, and allow it to work even over federation, if need be. I'd say one of matrix's biggest strengths here is its openness and ecosystem that integrates into it, if nextcloud can take advantage of that, it could empower those users with it. |
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Following the Fosdem session Opening up communication silos with Matrix 2.0 and the EU Digital Markets Act, this contains a maybe helpfull bit to enhance Talk for interoperability with other messaging systems while keeping e2e encryption. Seems a lighter Matrix variant called Linearized Matrix has been created. This is what (most) probably is used by WhatsApp and to be officially announed later this month (feb 2024) by Meta to comply with the DMA. Nothing official as that is part of a NDA.
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Great hope for hub 8 but, as everywhere else these days, "artificial" won over human (social app is forgotten and inerropability of Nextcloud Talk isn't improved). |
i completely missing this suggestion earlier, this sounds like a good compromise |
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This is already available using Matterbridge in PHP for Nextcloud Talk as mentioned here in the docs. Here is the app store listing and here is the Github repo. |
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Personally, an integration in this case would mean I can tag users and share nextcloud files to and from matrix protocol with e2ee. Bridging Talk to Matrix right now seems to be as useful as bridging Facebook Messenger to Signal. Maybe I don't understand how Talk > Matrix bridge works ? EDIT: When selecting a file, we can create a new conversation, but that conversation is stored in NC Talk, it is not a Matrix enabled chat. (Don't throw rocks at me, just trying to understand the advantage/use case of manually bridging each channel. I'm also wondering how that work configuration wise on a shared instance with 150 isolated users. |
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My problem is, i have a php only webspace. Matterbridge do not work for me. |
Netcup servers are starting at 3.xx EUR a month 😉 |
Did you try the matterbridge app for Nextcloud? It is coded in PHP and linked above. |
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@sunjam I tried one of the first release of matterbridge. After some investigation I found out that the Matterbridge app need a binary and if the app try to run it, I get an error. @pbek I have a similar hosting with similar features from another provider. Are you sure, that it allow running binary applications? |
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@Mannshoch, I use several VPS from https://www.netcup.de/vserver/vps.php. You can install any Linux distribution you like and run whatever you want. I use NixOS (Ubuntu was preinstalled) and run everything as a Docker container. The VPS 250 G11s is 3.99 EUR a month... |
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I do not trust my server and server security skills enough to host my own servers. Also I have almost non Networking skills ( know how to do port forwarding on my router at least). |
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Maybe an opportunity to learn 😉 |
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Matterbridge is a relaybot on Matrix side (AFAIK, at least every one I've seen) so it's out of question. I think this issue is about proper integration/federation, not bridging with clunky third party tools. |
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For my is Nextcloud kind of a super Proxy. I collect several sources of calendar and file shares, and access them with one account and with one app for calendar and nextcloud cliend for fileshares. So I would like to have the same behavior like for fileshare and calendar. I hope that I could manage matrix users in my Nextcloud address book (a function I really miss on Matrix apps). I hope I could redirect a lot of Notification mails (several forum-notification and newsletter) from Nextcloud Mail to a Chat-app on my phone. |
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Hello everyone, I support the integration of a matrix server instead of spreed and the conversion of Talk to a matrix client (or replacing it with an element web client). In the discussion it was said, among other things, that it is not difficult to install Synopse. Personally, I installed a Nextcloud very easily, but I'm struggling with Synapse. And for organizations, every new VM costs money because it is maintained by an IT company. If I have everything in one, I save a lot of money as an organization (in my case an educational institution). Thank you Thoys ps. and a bridge is not as good as an integration ;-) |
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Hey, can we try to keep the issue technical? If you're in favor, just use the thumb up emoji and if you want to share your personal potential usecase without adding anything of value to the actual solution use the nc-forums, reddit or whatnot. i guess there are enough reasons/perspectives why anybody would want this shared here. |
and others
This is a discussion thread for matrix.org integration as mentioned in meta thread #687. Also mentioned in chat meta thread #294 #395. Matrix has been announced as the base platform for the upcoming Librem 5 phone.
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