0KgCqGtXqFc.txt

Speaker 1:          00:00          So it's really useful to not defend yourself to vociferously, which is weird because you'd think, well, you have the right to defend yourself, like no all, no holds barred. It's like, no, it actually doesn't work that way. You have to defend yourself with minimal necessary force. And I think I managed that in the channel for interview for thank God, but I mean believe me, people have been talking to me about that nonstop for 15 months and I'm listening

Speaker 2:          00:25          and it wouldn't work as well if he hadn't done that right. If you just show laughter, right? The idea, if he'd just gotten right at her and said, what you are saying is so stupid for these five reasons, it would, it would have been bad. I think that's actually the fact that you sat there and he just said, no, you're asking good questions and you know, the fact that you're asking good questions demonstrates the validity of your entire viewpoint that that was much more effective. Right. Well, and that's one of the things I've been meditating on for the last years. There's a line in the new testament says, resist not evil.

Speaker 1:          00:54          Thank you. Okay. What the hell are you supposed to do? It's like because it's really a difficult thing to figure out. Do you really mean that you don't resist evil? Well, there's a couple of problems is if you punch back then you have a fight. Well, but you can't just not defend yourself like weekly. You can't be weak and not defend yourself, but you can be strong and defend yourself minimally. And that's a real art. Like that's, that's the essence of sophistication. I would say. Like I'm not, you know, I come from kind of a rough place. I'm coming from northern Alberta. I come from the frontier, you know, my town was scraped out of the bloody prairie 50 years before people moved before, before I lived there. And so, uh, it's, it's been an, it's been a continual challenge to just my sophistication to the level of challenge and I've, I'm trying to do that.

Speaker 3:          01:51          Do you think that. I don't always manage it. Yeah. So to that point, do you think that we sometimes actually at a deep level use identity politics against ourselves in, in this regard? So you're sitting across from Kathy, she's female. Yeah. At some level. Do you think you may be moderated it because of that? Because had it been a male, you know, and you talk about this often, that we have to act differently towards males and females and there's a physical, there's a physical reasons for that and biological reasons for that, but that had she been a male, say, say the same exact age from you, from Alberta and all of that, that perhaps your response might have been a little more forceful even though you're. We're all agreeing your response was done correctly and evenhandedly.

Speaker 1:          02:33          Yeah. Well I. It's hard to say, but probably yes. That's interesting because you did like, I can't, I don't think that you can say that you fight with a woman the same way that you fight with a man. That doesn't mean you can't fight with a woman. Doesn't mean you shouldn't, but I don't think the rules are the same. Now, why are the rules different? Well, some of the rules are, there's a physical limit. It's much more stringent, right? I mean, there's a level of hinting out physical threat that you can bring to bear in a conversation between men that you cannot bring to bear in a conversation with a woman. So, and the mechanics of that are very, very subtle and difficult and it's especially challenging in an intellectual discussion because an intellectual discussion is a kind of war and it isn't obvious how men and women should go to war with one another. We don't know. We don't know how to sort that out. Um, my sense has been on the panels that I've done is that I definitely have to pull my punches. If I'm on a panel with women, that doesn't mean that I don't. It doesn't mean that it's any less challenging intellectually, but the strategy and the attitude has to be different. It's much more likely that you'll be seen as a bully if you bring the same force to bear on a female opponent as you would on a male opponent.